We posted ten Mahavishnu Orchestra shows to the Concert Vault today, and we've already received lots of questions and comments.

We hope this forum provides a good place for Mahavishnu fans to trade notes.

Cheers!

Greetings Mahavishnu Orchestra fans,

I just wanted to pop in to address an issue that will inevitably surface. You'll notice that among our new Concert Vault additions is a MO show from the 1975 era of the group, an era that lacks accurate online documentation for the most part. When I first encountered a batch of 1975 MO tapes, most dated from the April/May tour when they were performing on the same bill with Jeff Beck's incredible "Blow By Blow" band, I was quite surprised that they were not performing latter era material. I immediately questioned whether these master tapes were labelled accurately and I have no doubts that scholars of this band will do the same.

While it's absolutely true that Mahavishnu Orchestra performed a concert at Washington DC's Lisner Auditorium in 1973, we *think* the recording we feature here is not that show. I was initially surprised that the 1975 group would focus on material from the 1972/73 era, but that is what they apparently did here. I'm merely speculating, but I think this approach of playing the more familiar material may have been in an effort to reach these audiences of Jeff Beck fans. I know some will question the dating accuracy of this show, and we are open to scholarly opinions and appreciate any help you can offer on this one.

[THIS SHOW HAS NOW BEEN IDENTIFIED AS 12/2/73 IN WASHINGTON, DC -- ONE OF THE LAST PERFORMANCES BY THE ORIGINAL LINEUP. THIS, ALONG WITH SEVERAL OTHER CORRECTIONS WILL BE FORTHCOMING - BIG THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE HELPED SO GREATLY!]

I've been a fan (and collector) of Mahavishnu Orchestra for several decades and count myself lucky to have caught the original lineup on three occasions during the 1972/73 era, but working directly with this incredible Mahavishnu Orchestra archive has been an eye-opening experience both in terms of the performances and in terms of what a profound effect this band had.

I hope you have just as much fun listening to these truly riveting performances. MrBB

MrPaulCaruso:

We posted ten Mahavishnu Orchestra shows to the Concert Vault today, and we've already received lots of questions and comments.

We hope this forum provides a good place for Mahavishnu fans to trade notes.

Cheers!

Now, if I were one to complain (and we know I'm not, right Mr. PC?  Thanks for the quick response, btw...) I'd point out that there are almost 300 requests for new performer forums going back to early last December, and now suddenly the Mahavishnu Orchestra gets it's own forum.  But we all know that I'm not one to complain, so I won't point that out.

For those concerned, there is Mahavishnu gig list for the original band that might be helpful. They also have photos and other stuff for Mahavishnu Orchestra fans.

http://label.abstractlogix.com/mahavishnu.htm

First of all, Paul and Mr.  BB- Thank you for posting these magnificant sounding concerts!  But, yes there will be some questions.  With good reason.

I appreciate the work that went into these...and I want more.  But a few simple calls could have cleared a lot up I believe.  I am listening  to, and immensely enjoying, One Word from the "1975 Hofstra show."  This is the original band- not the "quartet" as you indicate.  First of all, you mention the group reducing down to a quartet.  Then you say Steven Kindler played violin.   That would have made a quintet- But, when at the end of One-Word- John thanks Billy Cobham, Rick Laird etc.- that sort of seals it for me ;-) With all of the careful research- how could John's own words have been missed?

Is there any chance that you have just posted up the wrong concerts matched with the wrong descriptions?  Or that some of the tapes have been intermingled perhaps.  You should review. I have not had a chance to listen to the other 1975 show...so I am just commenting on the Hofstra 1975 for now.

Thanks again for these...the more documentation we have of this great band - the better!

Regards,

Walter Kolosky

Further on this...I contacted Stu Goldberg last night.  He said he played only half of those original MO numbers while with the MO.  He also stated he never remembers playing with Steve Kindler in a quintet- stating that when Steve left the big band he immedietely went into Jan Hammer's band- which is what I remember also.  This is one of those instances in which I would love to be wrong because it would add more to the MO story- so I suppose there is still room for that- but it is a very tiny room;-) Maybe there was a week or so when this could have ocurred. But, I think these tapes got mixed-up somehow.  And as I said earlier...when John McLaughlin thanks Billy Cobham and Rick Laird at a concert that is supposed to be Ralphe Armstrong and Narada Walden- I get a bit suspicious ;-)  Still amazed at the quality of the sound here though...and thankful you guys have spent the time and effort to bring these shows to light!

Hi Walter,
Your insight, as well as a few others who have written privately, is greatly appreciated and I am now convinced that the master tapes on the Lisner and Hofstra shows were originally misdated. Both had venues only listed on the tapes and it was a coincidence that the 1975 band happened to play the same two venues, which is how they got attributed to the 1975 dates. We will be corecting this info today.

On the plus side, I doubt anyone will be dissipointed that all of this initial batch is from the original classic lineup. Please keep the comments and corrections coming! I'm personally very interested and it all helps us in the ongoing struggle for accuracy.

This particular project has been one of the most challenging archival projects I've ever been involved in, which is the way it should be, I guess, as this was the most challenging band that ever was!

Thank you again and we should have this straightened out shortly. Regards, MrBB

That's great Mr. BB. Being a fan of the Mahavishnu Orchestra for over 30 years, and written a book about them, I consider these releases to be a major find.  They are far superior to any unofficial recordings I have ever heard and offer the listener an opportunity to hear MO tunes live (BOF) that has never been afforded to them before.  Bravo and thanks!

Regards,

Walter

You should check also the details on the Lenox Shows.  I would suggest they are from July 21, 1973 due to the fact tunes from Birds of Fire and even The Lost Trident Sessions are being performed.

Regards,

Walter

Also I would suggest Oct 28, 1973 as the accurate date for the Yale University show due to the set list.  Rick Laird's and Jerry's tunes appear.  They were not recorded until the summer of 1973 for the ill-fated Trident Sessions recording.  At some point, these became part of the band's repetoire. But, I don't think so in Jan of 1973.  I will do some further checking on this- but feel quite certain.

I hope you take these posts in the spirit in which they are meant- the quest for accuracy you mentioned. :-)

Mr. BB. Could you send me your off-list contact info?  My email is walterkolosky@comcast.net.

Hi, I also want to thank you for putting out these great concerts. But continuing in the vein of accuracy, I want to point out two things at the moment. First is that the Hofstra 1975 concert, which we now know is not from 1975 , is also recorded slightly fast, which is what gives it such a strange sound.

     The second thing is that the Lisner Auditorium concert, which we also now know is not 1975 and is the original band, is also probably not even Lisner Auditorium. The reason I say this is because the band only played Lisner once, and that was on Oct. 13,1972. They were not performing Steppings Tones and One Word in 1972. I am one of the researchers for Walter's book Power, Passion & Beauty and I am one of the compilers of the gig list at the web site for the book which was mentioned earlier in the thread. Our gig list was compiled and checked for accuracy by Elliot Sears, who was the road manager for the band, and who has his original itinerary from those days with which to verify all those dates.

    I have a question for Mr. BB .  Are you affiliated with the Magic Shop ? Thanks, and I hope there are some more releases coming ! It's my understanding you have 92 of them ?  peace,   TED

Ted McCallion:

They were not performing Steppings Tones and One Word in 1972. I am one of the researchers for Walter's book Power, Passion & Beauty and I am one of the compilers of the gig list at the web site for the book which was mentioned earlier in the thread. Our gig list was compiled and checked for accuracy by Elliot Sears, who was the road manager for the band, and who has his original itinerary from those days with which to verify all those dates.

Hi Ted,
Thank you for taking time to chime in. We greatly respect the your giglist work and have referenced it frequently. We also have quite a bit of concrete documentation accessible on our end, including original band itineraries, road diaries and additionally, actual contracts related to many of the late 1972 and most of the 1973 and 1975 MO concert dates.

We still have a long way to go on this monumentally challenging project and I have no doubts that we'll be making other discoveries in the months to come. Please understand that I am in no way discrediting your work or opinions on these things, but I do realize much of the previously known setlist/repertoire information was based on circulating radio broadcasts and audience recordings, most of which I am familiar with, having collected every snippet of the original lineup I could find over the past several decades.

I'm sincerely hoping we can eventually document everything that exists here accurately and with you, Walter and hopefully others helping with your experience and knowledge, that will eventually come to be.

So far, it's only been 24 hours since this initial batch has been offered and we've made significant progress, thanks to you guys.

I won't be able to monitor this ongoing discussion every day, but I will be back every few days or so as I'm extremely interested in all of this and I look forward to hearing from you again.

MrBB

I'd just like to say that I'd love to hear some actual concerts from the later Armstrong/Walden line-up. Haven't heard any live material from this version of the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I hope these will be posted eventually. (???)

Narada's drumming on Jeff Beck's "Led Boots" and Holdsworth's 'Velvet Darkness', etc. etc., is truly revolutionary, inspirational and unique. (I'm one of those strange types who greatly prefers Walden's playing over Cobham's-- and these posted shows just reinforce that opinion-- Cobham's heavy-handed rudiment-based drumming just seems so cliched (& stilted, sorry) listening to these shows all these years later.

But then again, I preferred Weather Report pre-Jaco (the Chester Thompson/Alphonso Johnson time period!!!), so i can see my opinion is not the "typical" one!!

thanks again for the mid-70's fusion. (if there's any Herbie Hancock/Headhunters in the vaults, that would be fantastic to hear-- talk about Funky and complex at the same time!)

I was at the Lisner Aud concert in the middle of Row 5 and made my own tape.  I can tell you that this doesn't sound like what I heard and saw, which had far greater power and cohesion.  In fact, none of the Maha boots in WolfsVault sound all that good to me in terms of the band's performances.  And I know of what I speak.