Cream

Re: Cream was not overated..and neither was Clapton!

anonymousouhhlciysrw — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:53:37 GMT

an inreresting topic which will never have a right or wrong answer! certainly there was an aura these artists cast upon everything and everywhere they stood. i was quite fortunate to have been born in 1961, summer of ....... what an amazing space in time!as the fourth of five brothers and the three ahead being raised on rock, i trained my ears to the sonic booms these guys were unleashing, if any artists currently making music, or noise can attest..cream laid down as much power and expressive energy as compared to others of that time.i'm fortunate to have ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Cream was not overated..and neither was Clapton!

gpk99 — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:41:12 GMT

Yea...there was a huge difference between them...GOD doesnt beat women.

Re: Cream was not overated..and neither was Clapton!

Shoe — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:36:50 GMT

This thread amazes me - comparing Clapton and Hendrix is like comparing green and purple grapes. Both are great but both have their own style. And Hendrix was the master of distortion - but still an awesome player.

As for Clapton's playing going downhill - the guy is in his 60s now? Gee, I'm only 50 and I can't play like I did when I was 20. And I didn't lead a life of excess the way these guys did.

Give it a rest already! And NO I was not a Cream fan!

Re: Cream was not overated..and neither was Clapton!

Topknot — Thu, 29 May 2008 01:23:46 GMT

Behold the magic,the pure melodic power which is the Cream! This is a musical statement born of gifted craftmen. The late 60's is period of time where rock became The Nectar of the Gods. This period of time will know no equal!

Re: Cream was not overated..and neither was Clapton!

philo — Sat, 17 May 2008 00:47:40 GMT

Which two 50min concerts were they java master? Are there bootlegs? I'd like to check them out. You might of course be right about them ( BB&C have admitted they played badly sometimes and given their schedule and their venues who can blame them) but even if if you are it wouldn't change the fact that there is ample evidence that you would be wrong to extend that verdict to other concerts. And if there are so many other guitarists who can smoke Clapton as you say how is it that none of them have produced any really great pieces of (electric guitar) music where Cream have produced several, in a period of only 2 years where, in addition , most of there work has been lost.
It has often struck me how often people are impressed with guitarists who are just showing off and how they mistake this sort of thing for real music. It should be obvious that a preocupation with showing what a great guitarist they are is often the reason why the music itself is so unsatisfying.
There are many fast and flashy guitarists around these days, although back in 68 there were none, but most of them are technicians and circus acts not great musicians.

Re: Cream Was not over-rated..and neither was Clapton!

Chris89 — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:10:47 GMT

I can understand where clapton can be considered overrated. But not when he was with Cream. He was at his very best with Cream and I know his guitar work on classics like the live version of Crossroads, Sunshine of Your Love, White Room, Outside Woman Blues, and others have inspired me just as much as Carlos Santana, Jimi Hendrix, Pete Townshend or any other of those gods.

However CLAPTON IS NOT GOD!!!!!!

Re: Cream was not over-rated..and neither was Clapton!

philo — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:02:40 GMT

HFC36
If this is your opinion i.e. if you are on Clapton's side ,why on earth didn't you change the heading as I did, before you posted you message. How many repetitions of this false assertion are there going to be if even his fans are going to contribute more.
It's not too late - you can alway edit your post.
Same goes for robkell.

Re: Cream Was Always Overated..and so was Clapton!

HFC36 — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:18:46 GMT

All I'm saying is listen to Clapton's "From the Cradel"-It will change your opinion. Also, get his "Blues" compiliation. It is filled with amazing guitar solos. His Cream amd Derek and the Dominos stuff was amazing, but a lot of his solo stuff until "From the Cradle" sucked as far as his guitar playing ability.

Re: Cream was not over-rated and neither was Clapton.

philo — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:39:35 GMT

robkell

Someone else raised the invidious comparison between Hendrix and Clapton. I was trying to put an end to the argument not trying to perpetuate it.

I wish you had made the small change to the subject heading that I have made. That was one of the main motives for the postings I have made.

By the way if you still have any inclination to play the first 2 Cream studio albums try playing them in mono. That way they are worth playing - otherwise I don't think they are, unlike the live stuff which is fine in stereo.

Re: Cream Was Always Overated..and so was Clapton!

robkell — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:45:58 GMT

unbelievable - that in today's times that this is being debated whether cream and/or clapton are overrated - or trying to compare hendrix to clapton - who was better. just the sheer popularity of these artists, the great records they made and sold in huge volumes, the concerts they sold out, the listening pleasure they provided and continue to do so - says it all. i feel incredibly lucky that i got to experience the mid-60;s into the early 70's that we got listen to all that great music. sorry but none of these artists or groups are overrated. at least not by any measurable standard other than some personal gripe - for some reason. i think that cream disreili gears and wheels of fire are classic albums - as is derek and the dominos layla and other assorted love songs; hendrix put out two classic albums - are you experienced and electric ladyland; and was surely working on a third when he passed away. to close out - i admit cream and hendrix don't get played much in my house anymore - but the layla cd's get played - and clapton has done some recent nice collaboration work with b.b. king and j.j. cale - this music is unspectacular, but still makes quite good listening. i think probably clapton is still revered by many guitarists today. the excitement of all that ground breaking music of the 1960's of which clapton was an important contributor - has long faded away. just look at the most recent music award ceremonies in the states and in england. boy that just says it all.

Re: Cream not over-rated and Clapton not over-rated in Cream.

philo — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:34:33 GMT

Caladbolg says that Clapton went from 'ripping off Hendrix to ripping of Marley' - both untrue. Since when did Clapton sound anything like Hendrix or vice versa for that matter? The only similarity that could be pointed to is that Clapton sometimes uses a high level of distortion with violently struck repetitive chords at the climax of long improvisations. But wouldn't anyone? What else can you do when you've been pulling out all the inventive stops for ten minutes or so. And in any case the only example of this sort of thing in the officially released live recordings of Cream is the version of' 'NSU' on 'Live Cream' and this is the most problematic of these well known performances (sometimes I think it works and sometimes I don't ) as it is so unrelentingly extreme.

Other examples of Clapton using distortion in this way can only be found on the Detroit Ballroom bootleg of Cream and I really don't think that Caladbolg was referring to this.

Apart from this inevitable convergence as they were both exploring the new possibilities afforded by the new amplification they only came anywhere close on very conventional blues like 'Lawdy Mama' and 'Sleepy Time Time' but that only goes to show what a limited form the straight blues is. This may have been the starting point of Cream but it's not how they acheived greatness which they did by transcending the blues with numbers like 'Spoonful' and 'Sitting On Top Of The World 'that allowed them to take the form to another level. They also did this with their own compositions which were adaptations of the blues form that like the last two mentioned provided them with the ideal launching pads for lengthy improvisations in the UNIQUE Cream style.

Clapton's use of wah wha of course cannot be cited as an imitation of Hendrix. This was a newly invented effect through an accessory available to all for the first time but it is obvious that Clapton had complete mastery of it from the start that owed nothing to Hendrix. Between them they seem to have exhausted its possibilities so that it soon became a cliche in lesser hands as did many of Hendrix's other uses of the new technology available to guitarists. Clapton only used wah wah on 'Ulysses' and 'White Room' as far as I can remember and always used tremolo and finger vibrato and flutter with great discipline taste and discretion. Other guitarists made them a cliche(/). To be honest maybe Hendrix did. But he was permitted to and and could have gone on using this sound had he lived.

It is an undisputed fact that Clapton and Hendrix admired each other - EACH OTHER - got it? Apart from this they played different material in very different ways. The only time they played the same thing is when Hendrix paid Cream the compliment of playing 'Sunshine' and of course he played it in a completely different way and I mean completely - he plays it in fact in a light and loose sort of way as if he was just having fun - just the opposite of Clapton.

This brings me to my main point:- Clapton was perhaps the only guitarist capable of sustaining a long improvisation without losing interest and losing tension. It may be that this was made possible through the contrapuntal tensions provided on their parts by Bruce and Baker but there is no evidence that any other guitarist could have taken Claptons place in this unique form of music.

By the way if listeners were more capable of sustained concentrated listening they might begin to appreciate that 'Crossroads' is not the only instance in which Cream achieve perfection. There are also the widely available LIVE versions of 'Spoonful',' I'm So Glad', Politician'(both live versions),'Sitting On Top of the World' and 'Toad'.

I believe that Cream, along with the Grateful Dead, have made the most serious and important white contribution to rock music as played LIVE but at the same time I recognise that their particularly intense form of music is not for everyone and there is nothing to be done about that.

I also believe that if Jack Bruce had been rather more disciplined ( it may have been alcohol that was to blame) in the use of his great vocal talent in his post Cream career then his live work with his various bands over the last 37 years would rank with the above. I think he came within a hairsbreadth of being the Beethoven of rock. The comparison can be pursued. In black music he would have some opposite rivals, in particular James Brown, and more obviously, Hendrix of course, but no one of the same stature in white music except Dylan. Anyone who wants to hear what I'm talking about can find the best evidence on the 1977 concert that the Jack Bruce Band gave for the BBC which is available as a single CD and now as part of a 3CDset with other concerts given on the BBC over the years. But in that particular concert the man was on top form. So was the band.

Re: Cream Was Always Overated..and so was Clapton!

dwpbike — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 03:01:06 GMT

judge cream by the live performances, not the albums. (the reverse is true of led zep.) blame the egos, blame stigwood, etc, but when they were on the mark, they were it. and it was over before i could see them. i saw blind faith in seattle in '69. clapton couldn't play; he couldn't even talk. it was embarassing. jack bruce never did jack after that. ginger baker was his own worst enemy. but together....

Re: Cream Was Always Overated..and so was Clapton!

BigPancho — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:19:31 GMT

Not with a few thousand mikes of purple microdot chased down with some Santa Marta Gold.

Re: Cream Was Always Overated..and so was Clapton!

Caladbolg — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:25:35 GMT

i dont think that Clapton was overrated. i think that with the drugs and alcohol, and his inability to stay in one band for more than one or two albums hurt his potential. He also never really found his own sound. He went from ripping off Hendrix in Cream to ripping off Bob Marley in 461. He isn't overrated though..He was the original modern guitar virtuoso. The only reason Jimi Hendrix went to London (where he first found an audience) was that he was promised he would be able to meet Clapton. Is he the best guitarist of all time? no way. But he was one of the most important, and that is why he is so highly regarded. Any doubts i ever have about his abilities are washed away when i listen to the live version of Crossroads when he was with Cream.

Re: Cream Was Always Overated..and so was Clapton!

CTA Fan — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:19:38 GMT

I don't think Cream was over-rated.

I do think Clapton as a guitarist is highly over-rated.

I think Clapton's music after 461 Ocean Blvd. is hugely over-rated; everything before that, especially Derek and the D's, is deserving of all the praise it gets and maybe more.

Derek and the D's gets better every year that goes by.