I believe that this ll comes down to a broader discussion of a really very simple question: What is art?

If I may make a parallel here: neo-modernist art versus works from the classical period. Here is a popular conception of modern art: tis ***. Honestly anyone can draw a circle on a canvas and proclaim it art. I can throw paint of canvas and call it art. Compared to "the classics" it is simplistic, messy, and unimaginitive.

You make the statement quite a few times over to the effect of "But this is just my opinion--feel free to believe what you want" but honestly I am not convinced you truly believe this. I understand the value of challenging pre-conceived beliefs and notions but your continuous presence in the topic and the argumentative nature of your posts suggests to me that you reeeeally want to change people's minds. Either that or you get a thrill out of arguing with people.

It is obvious (at least to me) that art is a difficult concept to break down and judge for its merits. Perception plays an important role in what you consider to be art. Given individuality, there are an overwhelming amount of differing opinions regarding what is art and what is not. Someone could easily degrade the original blues that supposedely have more artistic merit than Led Zeppelin or the Beatles by claiming thier simplistic and unsophisticated form and style (as opposed to jazz...)

However, simplicity of form or style does not neccesarily belie simplicity of artistic merit. Somehow our culture works on the assumption that "original is better" which is a dangerous misnomer. Who am I to say that B.B. King has more merit than Led Zeppelin who has more merit than Britney Spears.

I am truly not the one to judge for art is the one form of knowledge that is truly relative by nature. I will say this though: Peter I think you are fighting a war that has no purpose, no end in sight. Frankly you aren't accomplishing much.

Thanks  Peter H. you've spread the Zepp even on this site reaching 123 posts

 "we've done four already but now we're steady and then they went: one two three four"y and and"We've done four already but now we're steady
and then they went: One, two, three, four")


"We've done four already but now we're steady
and then they went: One, two "We've done four already but now we're steady
and then they went: One, two, three, four") we've, three, four") "We've done four already but now we're steady
and then they went: One, two, three, four")

Random thoughts:

Led Zeppelin, live, were purely intuitive and did what the moment dictated to them. It was this uncertainty that made them an exciting, fairly explosive live act. They WERE wrong to steal, in effect, without giving credit to the sources of their inspiration. I believe Willie Dixon finally did win an infringement case against the band some years back. But the power with which the band played these songs eventually drew attention to their originators, who benefited anyway.

Plant's power on the early recordings cannot be denied. After their first four albums, however, it seemed to me that he had blown out his voice, and tried to compensate with a stuttering falsetto that often didn't get the job done. Occasionally he embarrassed himself, as on the '94 'Unledded' reunion with Page, to which John Paul Jones was not invited.

On the question of whether they or anyone else should be allowed to come in and threaten this site: ABSOLUTELY NOT. That would be shallow, shortsighted, and what's more, it would be inexcusably mean.

Thanks for reading, guys.

Duran Duran was awesome. Especially Wild Boys, unfortunately (or fortunately) I was in the bar getting hammered for most of it while we waited for Bowie to come on after them....

 

Peter Grant was my response to Peter H. You subconsciously implanted it in my head when I was looking for a tagname to provoke the FIRST man ever to knock Led Zep. Not like every serious critic in the early 1970's who also did the same. But you say it in a new and very interesting way - you are an original. Oh wait they did say the exact same things. Hmmm....except your argument "they got alot of underage girls therefore they must be good (sarcasm dripping)" - sheer brilliance....or should I say "sheer education". Anyway I am convinced - the posters of Robert and Ringo will come off the wall as will my Poison/Warrant/Alex Van Halen posters (as we all know Plant is to blame for all hair bands just like Ringos drum solo in "The End" is responsible for all drum solos forthwith....) 

 

Anyway read my notes - I don't think they were the greatest, I just like them and I just find your arguments so infantile I have to respond. (I know, I know - very "DEEP" I have crossed the insult line again). But you're one question deep. I can't take you seriously - Jeff Beck? Truth? No sht? I can visualize you scurrying to google to counter act every detractors statement. My brilliance just flows naturally.

 

And finally when will you come out of the closet? Your responses are so steeped in LZ lore that it's painfully obvious you are only using this thread to espouse about a band you love. As if you don't understand the significance of  a "tadpole in a jar". !!! Too rich

 

Sandy Denney

Well, Peter H. did one heck of a job drawing the countless Zep fans out into the open and get a taste of a loyal fan's ire.  I think he really digs Zeppelin and needed some validation from fellow fans through there adamant defense and proclamation of their legend.  Either way there must've been a real power rush throwing out those incendiary opinions like that, Whoa mama!  Was that a Zep lyric?  Damn they're ubiquitous ain't they?  I think I'm going to try something like:  "Face it, we all know Jimi Hendrix was just another derivative blues guitar player with big amps!"  Or:  "Come on! We all know Jim Morrison was a devout A.A. member working on his 4th step for the second time.  All those "eccentricities" were just a prank devised by his UCLA drama club."

Don't let him get under your skin.  Damn! There I go again!

raspy

Zeppelin fans, read this article. How can you have so much love for a band who showed no respect for their peers and influences?

http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html

All I can say is... can you sing any better? Yes they did inspire a lot of crappy bands.

HarryOgre:

I've often wondered what motivates a person to seek out a site that is dedicated to a particular band, hobby, activity, etc., and then open a dialog by insulting the site or its content or its fans.

Thousands of examples can be found on You Tube where some one will post a video about a particular performer and inevitably someone will post a trash attack on the performer.

For me personally, I would have no reason to log on to Concert Vault, go to the Forums, find a Madonna thread and then post how I hate her so called music.

I wouldn't do that because I simply don't care about her or her music or her fans. And since I am confident in my own opinion, I do not feel the need to rip someone else's opinion apart simply to stroke my own ego.

But that's just me.

Geez, you are weird!   ;-)

Weird of Hermiston:

Zeppelin fans, read this article. How can you have so much love for a band who showed no respect for their peers and influences?

http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html

Most of us knows about it, and know the Page nickname "Led Wallet", but it's an interesting article, even to take note of the titles of the songs and try to listen the original ones, anyway nobody else could play the songs louder and faster then Zepp

I read the article. And.....so what. Rock is littered with assholes. Most of them in fact.

 

I agree that he was a *** but if I held the personal lives and decisions of all my favourite bands up to the light and chose only those that were virtuous and good I'd only be listening to the Brady Bunch. Or Stryper.

 

Unfortunately I need to listen to music I like......

Who do you think is good ?

I think Led Zep ruled the 70's.  If you play guitar and i am sure you do not, you would find it very difficult to play page's solos.

well who is good ?????????????

steve in c town:

Who do you think is good ?

I think Led Zep ruled the 70's.  If you play guitar and i am sure you do not, you would find it very difficult to play page's solos.

well who is good ?????????????

I play guitar. Page's solos aren't particularly special or hard. Clapton's solos are way harder to copy. Page was good at playing the pentatonic scale fast (and sloppily). But speed isn't special; Clapton, Hendrix, Johnny Winter, etc. were just as fast. Page didn't even come up with the violin bow idea, he stole that from someone else too.

EVEN if Led Zep can be considered hard fast simple and loud , they are clearly so much more multi- dimensional: blues forays(too numerous to mention), acoustic folk ballads(Goin 2 Cali, Rain Song), eastern inflences (Blk Dog-Kashmir), and more.  Even you never like Led Zep, upon listen one can understand their musical statements. To simply say Plant is the worst singer is to never listen to bands like Accept (!) Y&T and any other crappy unsensible metal bands who Zep influenced. True Plant voice is nowhere near what is used to be.

Zep were sonic masters, esp in the studio. Memorable decades later on radio, ipod or any other device, they are simply NOT overrated. Much like the Beatles they provided a model and an architecture of possibility on how classic rock could be!   So there.

Pete in Maine 

HarryOgre,

 

I looked for terms and conditions on the LZ thread that indicated it was for the exclusive use of rabid fans only. I didn’t see anything that said I had to say only positive things. Please don’t go to the Madonna thread and criticize. Unless you want to. The good people at the Vault opened a forum and said, “go” so I did. Do Zeppelin fans need a safe harbor where they can avoid a little heat? Open up your own thread as I did (thanks for stopping by and joining the most viewed performer’s thread on the ranch.) You could call it LZ: The Most Underrated Band that Ever Was Who Can Do No Wrong.

 

So why would someone who doesn’t like a band go to a forum about the band? To spout off my opinions while listening to the Vault. Just like you. Of course I know I’m in the minority here. So I should shut up? Eventually, yeah. Like when LZ’s lawsuit shuts this place down.

 

As far as ego stroking, my first post was done to open up a debate about the merits of Led Zeppelin. Mission accomplished. As far as ripping other’s opinions apart? I went first, then they added something, commenting about my post, and then I posted about theirs and added some more and eventually opinions were communicated. None of the posters suck. Led Zeppelin does, though.

 

Raspy,

 

Do I secretly dig Led Zeppelin? I finally found something positive to do with their music. I used it to demonstrate audio editing software to some high school kids. It was fun to show them how to carefully edit out the wanky guitar solos, pointless yodeling and all of the times they stop a song dead in its tracks to show off. Whole Lotta Love isn’t so bad when that Plant moaning and cymbal plinking is deleted. Makes a nice 3 minute song.

 

Jam Man

 

You wrote: “To simply say Plant is the worst singer is to never listen to bands like Accept (!) Y&T and any other crappy unsensible metal bands who Zep influenced.”

 

I don’t listen to Accept (!) Y&T or any other crappy unsensible metal bands. And I blame that crappy unsensible music on Led Zeppelin and the legions of sheep that have bowed down to their rock godliness for the last 40 years. As I’ve said before, just because an artist is influential doesn’t make them good.  

 

John Entwistle,

 

Back from the dead? Can I sing better? Probably not, but if you John Entwistle, did vocals fronting Page, Bonham, and that other guy? That would be so cool. Your big deep voice growling with the band roaring. (Jones could play keyboards, or else polish The Ox’s guitars.) At least it would have saved us from 40 years of a shrieking vocal style that sounds better when Ann Wilson of Heart does it.

 

Interesting question. What would rock have sounded like if Led Zeppelin had a singer with a deeper voice? What would Geddy Lee have done for a living?

Keep that bustle in your hedgerow,

Peter H.